Q & A Episode 29 - Culture vs. Strategy: Brad and Mark Talk Shop
Episode #29 | Q&A with Mark D. Williams | Culture vs. Strategy: Brad and Mark Talk Shop
In this episode of The Curious Builder Podcast, host Mark Williams chats with Brad Robinson Bradford from Bradford Custom Homes and Remodeling about the importance of setting goals, maintaining robust team communication, and the challenges of scaling a business. They dive into personal anecdotes about balancing work and life, the significance of regular employee check-ins, and the influence of leadership styles on team performance. Plus, they share some fun and quirky moments about Minnesota's chilly adventures and the power of collective inspiration.
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About The Curious Builder
The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. WIlliams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.
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Brad Robinson 00:02
It is really the opportunity for them to say, I'm doing good at this. I know I need improvement here. Here's where I stand against my goals that I that we've created going into this year. And here's what, how life has changed for me. And this is what I have now as my new personal goal, my new professional goals, and we come together and discuss how a Bradford can support all of those things, and b How I can jump in and get involved to what to supporting that effort too. But man, it's like a thermometer. If I don't do those, it's almost as if you can feel it in the air. Ian, Music. Welcome
Mark D. Williams 00:45
to cures bidder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host today, I'm joined in studio for a 20 minute Q and A with the Mr. Brad Robinson from Bradford custom homes out of Atlanta, Georgia. Welcome, Brad man, it's really exciting to be here in person. I know you're here for Sonic camp. So by the time this airs Sonic Apple have already happened. So if you wanted to be in there, you missed it. Come next year, it's in Minnesota, end of January every year, I think we've got 45 registered people, mostly builders, a few of my running buddies, and just whoever else wants to come. It's gonna be a great time. We've got the full day you flew in. I got a couple other people flying in, and we're gonna have a great time together. I was gonna say I thought it'd be colder here it actually, you bought the warmth. It was Monday and Tuesday were like minus 25 I'm
Brad Robinson 01:26
actually thankful, because on Monday, when we were talking about this, I was actually intimidated. I don't get intimidated by much, but negative 20 or something like that really started to change my mind around, like, what I was getting ready to do. But the water still doesn't change temperatures. That's true. But still, you do have to walk like, 500 yards from the sauna
Mark D. Williams 01:44
to the hot No, it's 40 yards.
Brad Robinson 01:47
Okay, you're probably minimizing it. The news said something,
Mark D. Williams 01:51
usually I do maximize. This would be the first time you're like, actually, it's much smaller
Brad Robinson 01:55
distance. Regardless, I look at it this way, I'm gonna do something that I've been not necessarily fearing, looking forward to for sure, but again, just another hard task, building on that piece of the muscle that says, hey, you can do hard things, and this will be easy as I do it, because I have to admit, I've taken some I'm been plunging a lot less lately, have you?
Mark D. Williams 02:17
Oh, dude, just because you can't fit into your schedule, part, partially,
Brad Robinson 02:21
yeah. And because it's very cold, like, it's different plunging when it's hot outside, or when it's nice outside, per se. But then you go outside and it's 20 degrees, and then you're gonna get in 39 degree water. It's that's
Mark D. Williams 02:35
so funny. You say that because it's way easier to be in the sauna first and then go get cold. And it's interesting, because you're gonna have to be one of the people with me. Of the people with me, because we're gonna have 45 people that don't want to do that. I would rather do that, but we're going to so dr Mel Krug, who we've had on the podcast before, talking about, she's gonna lead us all through breath work and somatic and all that, which is really, I'm actually excited for and but she's gonna need at least 15 volunteers to go cold first, which is gonna suck. So I'm volunteering you and me to go in first, because everyone else will let myself, like their experience good, but so I'm excited to see, like the breathing pattern to combat that fight or flight, what that will feel like. I
Brad Robinson 03:09
need the breathing on so many other levels, though, like we talk about this often, and running and building the base and putting the miles down, but also how important breathing is and running, and that's something I've yet to conquer. So I was really, yes, really excited to jump in a frozen lake, right? Because I've never done that. Getting in the cold water and a little bitty pool is nothing, right? But the breathing I'm actually really excited to do.
Mark D. Williams 03:34
What you'll find is interesting, because we did this maybe a month ago with some buddies. Is as not a real surprise, probably to most people, is that if I can talk, I can get through it, because it distracts my mind. Some people, they want silence because they have to focus so intently on what they're doing. It's just interesting, because ultimately, you're distracting your brain, because your body can handle almost anything. It's your brain. You're tricking your brain. I think Vince Lombardi had a great quote. He was giving a pep talk, probably for both ice bowl or Super Bowl one or something. And it was like, gentlemen, the good Lord has given you a body that can do anything. Now we have to convince your mind to do it. And I think that's true in business life. I mean, the body's amazing.
Brad Robinson 04:12
It is, I think back, like a lot of the core memories that I have as a young teenager, even I played sports my whole life, but I played football and playing football in Georgia. I'm not saying we should get an award, but just similar to how it is in northern states, being that it's cold and all those things in southern states, it's extremely hot, and you're already geared up so it's it's mentally exhausting on top of being physically exhausting. But I think back to a lot of those core memories that I built playing the sport, and regardless of how good I was right, I was still out there, suited up, running the drills, giving it 100% whatever, right, like that. Probably I have to feel like that gives me. I built that mental muscle a long time ago, and now I'm like, I can persevere through pretty challenging things because of that. I think
Mark D. Williams 05:07
owning a business confidence is so such an interesting thing. Relating it to business. When you're confident, sales come in from all over the place, and when you are desperate, holding on tight, because you're like, I don't know where my next sale. It seems to like, radiate, like people can sense it from basketball. You can't buy a bucket. When you're hot, you're doing the Michael Jordan shrug. I've been there just fallen and when you're not, you're just ice cold. It seems like a sports business personality, we have these waves. And I like what one person one time said. They said, You can have your up and down, but don't go in and out. And I think what they meant by that actually was a spiritual goal. You're gonna have up and down in your life. Spiritually. Don't like, just leave, and I appreciate that too. I think it applies to so many things. It could be marriage, but you have your ups and downs in marriage. Good marriages are hard, bad marriages are hard, but, like, hard is hard. And I think sometimes comparing other people's heart to your heart is also it's very common to do that, but it's actually not really that important, because I get to equate it to running. You might be able to run an eight minute mile, and someone else might only be able to run a 12 minute mile, but he actually might be trying, or she might be trying harder than you. Hard is hard, and you look at the guy who's running a five minute marathon, he's putting in maybe less effort. He's like in Zone Two, like some of these elite runners are running sub five in zone two, which is insanity.
Brad Robinson 06:22
I know it's like my heart rate. Here's what I go back to. My quote is comparison, is the thief, thief of joy, right? So, but you're exactly right on this. I'll be even on the treadmill, right? And I'll be looking at other people's screens, and I'm like, Okay, I got three miles down. I got three miles down. I've done it, and let's just call it 30 minutes. I'll see that they've done it in 28 and I look at my watch, and I'm like, 147 and I'm like, man, like, Why is my heart rate so high at this pace? Right on two still, you get where I'm going. I do it's like, it might spike the 165 Yeah, just if I look too hard. But you know where I'm going with that. You can look at your situation, look at how much work you've put in, but you never know where someone else is, so it's best to
Mark D. Williams 07:05
let that go under. And I think that's true in you and I both love sports, so a lot of our analogies tend to go there, and I think it's applicable. But like i i hope that people like I should speak for myself, I see really like, you're a phenomenal business owner, that's one of the things that I envy is the wrong word. I'm inspired by your business acumen and scaling and the number of companies you've had. I look at somebody like Brad Levitt, who's obviously on a whole nother planet, but I find it inspiring. I don't find it discouraging. And I hope that people, I hope people can get to a point where they're confident enough in their bill I hope they're inspired by what they see like I look around to other builders, they inspired me to be better. And I think that's why, like running in a group, I'm sure there's ego involved, but like it is, it can be playful, as long as you recognize that what it is, and like, harness the good out of it and leave the bad. Like running in a group, you will run faster with people than if you run alone, because there are times that you don't want to run fast, and they force you to do it, and over a course of time, that makes you
Brad Robinson 08:00
faster. It's the same theory about sit next to a high performer and you'll become an the next high performer. We talk about that a lot in our organization. We basically tell people when they first come in, it's like, hey, look, you're gonna be around a bunch of high performers. Whether that's true or not, they typically perform better. It's a mind trick, like you can make people better than what they think they are, and take them to new levels and lead them to that just by showing them what other good work habits and what hard work looks like to you by building that team around you. So I would say, in business, my favorite aspect of owning any business that I have is building these teams. I've said it 100 times, right? It's what is the thing I'm most proud of. It's like the teams that I've created, because it's not a magic wand I'm not going do, to do, and then I have a good team. It's I just continue to drip on them, that they're capable, that they have what it takes to do the tasks that they're being asked to do, whatever it is. But most importantly is, like the accountability aspect of it, and the other people that are around you, they're all running at a fast pace, so you got to keep up.
Mark D. Williams 09:09
One of my favorite quotes just comes back to me right now at inglebreck Episode One on the curious builder podcast, almost two and a half years ago, owns Pella windows in in Minnesota. Here, good friend of mine, he said, and I agree with it, much bigger corporation than I am a part of. He said, culture Trump strategy. Culture eats strategy for breakfast, basically. And I it's become a very big buzzword. Doesn't make it not true. How do you and I think a lot of times it's not that we shouldn't focus on culture. I think it. I think if you just care, someone one time said, because they were getting really frustrated, they said, and I just don't swear, but they said, My give a dang, is busted. And I knew exactly what he meant. He called he was a subcontractor. He was really frustrated, but he does such a good job on the job site. He does he he's so professional, he's so good with the clients, and he knows I value that. He was just so frustrated that another sub on the project, whether it's dirty. Behind and whatever it is, and he's just, you know what? My give it, Ian is just busted right now. And I said, You know what? Rich, his name. I said, I really appreciate everything you do. You're one of the Yeah, he needed a pep talk. Because, you know, sometimes we just need to be told like you're awesome, and he is, because sometimes you have that one Alpha who's just amazing, and you don't need to bring him back. You need to elevate everybody else. That's right? And I feel like I certainly anyone who owns a company is a leader, and I certainly believe in leadership, and I think the best is still modeling versus telling. One of my goals for this year is actually leave more time for my team, for space, because we're so small, we're a three person, soon to be four person company, and we obviously out punch our weight, just in size. But that means I'm really busy, yeah, and I don't have enough time. And oddly enough, I had Brad Levitt on recently, I think, on Episode 100 and he said the same thing. He said, When he did us? When someone did when his builder 20 to SWOT analysis on him? I said, we all know what you're great at, because we can just look at it. What are you not good at? And he said his number one weakness, based on the people that give him the analysis, was that he needs to give his people more time. Oh, I just thought that was really, it doesn't matter your size. It seems like that is even like your kids. That's personal too, like your kids just want time with you. Yeah,
Brad Robinson 11:10
it's so hard. It's hard to balance that aspect of like, when you are in periods of growth and you are, I like to use Nick schiffer's analysis, you're always chasing that. And as a business owner, you're chasing that next job. You're chasing that next that trophy project, something that really inspires you, and you get caught up in the minutia of doing those things. But what I can tell you is that it's essential to put that time back, and the way that we have typically done it, and the way that we've been successful, whether it was three employees or whether it was 19. Now that we have, I look at it as I can begin to tell when we have gone more than, let's say, four months without doing one on ones with our teams, and now we're to the place where we've got a management stack. So those managers are now having those one on ones with their direct reports, and I'm not necessarily involved with it, but what I found is, even in that case, I really do need to be in front of them there. It matters like I know that long. That's the challenge I have with long term sustainable scaling. Is that I won't be able to touch everybody at some point, and that is intimidating. But what I what I can tell you, going back to the point of, is we do one on ones every six months, so we carve out that time every six months. We're sitting in front of each person, and it is really the opportunity for them to say, I'm doing good at this. I know I need improvement here. Here's where I stand against, my goals that I that we've created going into this year. And here's what, how life has changed for me, and this is what I have now as my new personal goal, my new professional goals. And we come together and discuss how a Bradford can support all of those things, and B, how I can jump in and get involved to what to supporting that effort too. But man, it's like a thermometer. If I don't do those, it's almost as if you can feel it in the air.
Mark D. Williams 13:14
If you're following along. What we're doing outside of the podcast, we have the curious collectives. Basically. What this is, is we get small groups no more than 30. You get into tables of nine, and we have set topics of discussion. You can see everything that you want on the website, at curious builder podcast.com you can also find it in other cities. So the collective is going into Phoenix. Brad Levitt is going to be hosting a curious collective down in Phoenix, Arizona. We're gonna have Brad Robinson and Vince Longo leading a collective in Atlanta, Georgia, and we're gonna have David and Angela Penske down in San Antonio also leading a collective. And a few other states are coming online later this year as well, of course, as Minnesota. So if you're interested in getting together with like minded individuals, this collective is kind of somewhere between what we do at the contractor coalition that you hear me talk a lot about. It's also kind of a hybrid of what you see at builder 20s. So it's a really open format, very much embracing collaboration of competition. If you want to further your education, if you want to increase learning from each other, you definitely want to find out more about these collectives.
Brad Robinson 14:20
Think about it from this perspective, how long will someone go without telling you that they have a problem? That's
Mark D. Williams 14:27
interesting, though. I think from reading body language, I often I think you have a lot of micro, because we are such. I'm thinking like Joel, my controller, he we would all in our team, except Mike, my project manager, because he's so even we'd all be the worst poker players ever. Like, I'm too excited. Like, you would just see my face. I would light up. Okay, Mark's got a full house unfolding. Joe, like, you just know when he's just not happy. And so I'll be like, what's up, where, what's going on? And so I think checking in regularly and opening up. And I think it is different men and women and personalities. I think just open communication and may really reaffirm. Mean that you'll listen. It's
Brad Robinson 15:01
just like in your marriage, that if you have an unresolved conflict, walls begin to get built. What is the worst thing you can imagine happening in your business you're not getting the accurate information to make a good decision, where, in this case, you know, and I'm not discounting marriage, right? You may have an opportunity to correct that problem later, but it could cost you, who knows how much? Right? There's no dollar amount you can associate to it. So if they begin to build walls on you and then the communication shutters, that's what they say. What is it like the when you're when your employees become quiet, that's when things are wrong, that that happens. I've experienced.
Mark D. Williams 15:40
I was just bringing this up recently. If you the reasons that people stay and the reasons that people leave, money is like not even the top four or five. I think affirmation was like number one value culture, those types of things being appreciated. And I think owners. I know I'm a fairly sentimental person, but we get busy and we I'd like to work with a players. Love A players. I hope I'm an A player. But the point of it is, I like people. I don't necessarily like to be told what to do all the time, right? That's probably why I'm an entrepreneur. I'm open to feedback, especially if I ask for it, but it's like, a little bit on your own terms, right? Like I say I'm open for feedback, but are you really, maybe it's everybody except your wife, or is that just me and but anyway, my point in bringing this up is have a an A player. I've known him for my whole life, but I give him a lot of space. I honestly don't know what he does all day, but I know he gets stuff done, but I could probably check in with him more. And I think sometimes when you have these long standing relationships, you don't want to, you don't want them to think. You take them for granted, but you also don't want to micromanage them. So it's like riding this wave. You gotta you have to just balance them. We've
Brad Robinson 16:42
talked about this, and your leadership style is unique to you. It's probably a homogenous blend of several different types of leadership. Not everyone has just one style, right? Like I like to say all the time, I practice servant leadership. I learned it from a mentor of mine who was very successful and had accolades up the roof and it and I think it served me well, but I know that I have my weaknesses. I know where my I certainly know where I need improvement, and I just try to work on it. But I've got to tell you now the ebb and flow, or the business cycles. They say that as your business gets crazier and your problems get bigger, and you go through these cycles where you can just handle it all. Man, that has been the weirdest thing to experience. It's not much tips me anymore. It used to be that everything would tip me, like, if down to the detail, if it wasn't my exacting SLA wasn't followed, I would SLA just like an SOP, oh, like, just at the service level agreement, yeah. But you've got so regardless, it would be like, I need to understand why we didn't follow this. And over time, it's like, that is priority number seven in my stack right now, and I have to flow with it. The other issue
Mark D. Williams 17:52
is that we tend to, most owners, tend to try to solve the problem, which is not a bad thing, especially in construction. I do think there's importance like, discover, like, what the issue is. It's not to throw someone under the bus like that usually doesn't go usually doesn't go really well. Like, discovery is important, but honestly, solving the problems the most important. Like, I understand an error has been made. Okay? I understand it. It happens. Okay, what? How do we move on? And I think that my I talk about asking for help a lot, and it helps that I'm not really a know it all in terms of the construction knowledge, like I've said many times, I'm a marketer that happens to build, and so I have just surrounded myself with people that have a deep building house. Now, after 20 years, I'm sure I know more than maybe I think I know. But the point of it is, I'm going to talk to my trimmer. Hey, that coping detail or that. I'm not going to tell the trimmer. I just know. I know what I like when I don't like. My question be like, What do you think is going to look best? Great. Like today, actually, I was on a job site, and he's doing this little architect detail, and he said I could get a hold of the pm or the architect. And I just happened to be stopping by, and I was talking to him, and he said, I think I should cut this off. And I looked down like, that, sounds great. I wouldn't want to see that. I agree with you. Sometimes they just need the validation. But they're the Pro. That's what they do day in and day out. Why would I tell them what to
Brad Robinson 18:57
do? Yeah, they're capable, for sure. I just think sometimes, like you said, it's validation that what they did what they were supposed to do, or they did what they thought you would like, it's not theirs. Their name will be on it, but it's still the
Mark D. Williams 19:12
name on it, though. Is really intriguing. Who told me this, I want to do it. I haven't figured out a way to adopt it, but I like what they said is that taking ownership and we want, I'm proud of the homes I built. Like I'm excited to like, my kids like to drive by. That's one of the most rewarding things about construction is that you can physically see it at the end of the week progress. You can also drive by a home and see if families living there wave to them. I had coffee with a past client the other day. She's been there for 10 years, and I'm like, Man, this is just amazing. It's just really a deep relationship. And you drive by this home, you build it 20 years ago, and you're like, wow, I've really changed a lot. But at the end day, a happy family lives. There many happy families have lived there. It's still a great home. Yeah, that's cool, and people should take pride in that. And where I'm going with this is someone had put the seat in my thought maybe I saw an Instagram or someone was doing it, but they have during the MA. P version of it, of the build, they'll have the framer, electrician. Everyone signs a two by four that's in the in someday, if anyone ever remodeled it, they would see Mark Williams the 15th of January, 2025, or whatever. And I, what I like about that is telling the framers, the electricians and everyone there that they're gonna do it before they start the job because they realize there's something permanent about their it's not just a job. They now are leaving their imprint on this house, and some you don't have to, let's like rich, the guy who's so conscientious about he doesn't need he actually has a branding or he burns in on every drawer with his name, and it's pretty baller. I actually asked him if I could get a branding iron for all of the cabinets. And he's they're my cabinets. I was like, but I'm paying for them. They're fine. I was like, okay, touche, they're
Brad Robinson 20:49
rich. Is rich for you. I was gonna say, we've had cabinet companies reach out to us and say, Look, we can do this for you. So they do it, but I get it. I get it. And the fact that you have someone that takes that much pride that would want to show that that's means a lot. We're just like you. We rely on our vendors to put their etch their name into it, but I really like that idea of having them do it up front. That's inspiring. I think it's inspiring that you have the opportunity to go by and spend time with your clients to that degree or like it feels like that's a piece of the business that I do miss a lot. And I think I mentioned it. I stay connected to the clients. I reach out and make personal an effort to reach out to them personally throughout the build, not just when problems arise, but I try to be there. I can't do it as frequently as I want. Now, we've got 19 projects going on at one you've got
Mark D. Williams 21:41
a lot bigger operation for sure, right? There's pros and cons. There's a part of it where I'd like to, I was talking to Morgan Molitor. She was in yesterday, actually recording for her episode, and she was just talking that she basically, she's trying to scale, and so she's trying to remove herself. But like any client, they're like, I want the owner. Like, who want? And you're like, well, most of the like, even today, the trimmer is like, Mike knows more about like, someone I called the architect, and he's like, hey, when is this happening? I'm like, I don't know. We'll have to talk to Mike. When is this No, we'll have to talk to Mike. And it's not that I'm ignorant of it. We usually get caught up on Mondays. Today's a Friday. So I just wasn't in the know of what had happened. I didn't want to. The other thing is, I think they call it the savior complex. I don't want to swoop in like Superman, do it and then leave either you undermine your people, that's right, and then also it's you're probably wrong.
Brad Robinson 22:26
You just don't have the the right frame of mind. You're not seeing the actual picture for what it is at that moment in time, you're behind always, and that's the difference, right? So what did I say to you this morning? I was jogging through daily logs, just so that I could feel connected to the projects where they currently are in recent days. And it's a beautiful tool. And I think we were I was even discussing this. I was on the building code podcast yesterday. I was talking to Charlie, another friend, mutual friend of ours, and we were having a conversation about, like, how do you keep it all together when you do have so many projects, and one of the things I was talking about is in our new project set up, how we take our clients through the baton handoff, we are absolutely empowering that project manager as we are deputizing them essentially as me, and we're hyping them up, just as if they were gonna Get someone with the knowledge, the expertise. But we're also building in an extra layer, which is, there's value in having an entire team. There's value in having multiple sets of eyes. There's value in the fact that whatever's happening in the field, I have access to it here, and I do scan the daily logs. I'm looking at them most every single day, and I jog every single one of them? No. But again, there's typically a manager who's overseeing those who is actually on site, because he's checking in on maybe five or six sites over the course of a day, maybe as many as eight during the week. But then on the new construction side, it's a whole different person that's doing that, but you have to delegate and break apart those tasks to be able to manage it, but building that process is truly the key. What a Dan Martell, you either have a people process, people problem, or you have a process problem. Those are the only two problems that you have in your business. So if you've read, buy back your time my my suggestion or advice when you're going to scale a business is everything that you do should be done with the mindset that when you're done with it, you can create a repeatable outcome every single time. So that's really the goal. It's if you think about it, with the end in mind, you're going to put together a process that you're going to have to put trust and I think what becomes I
Mark D. Williams 24:41
was mentioning this the other day, this the other day that, let's just call it doctors. You go to school, you have this great knowledge base, but like to be a doctor and a business owner. Like, it's just a rare it's rare that you'd be good at both. Most people get into construction because they like construction. They like building. They usually didn't get to be an entrepreneur right off the bat because. That's what they wanted. Now, some do you are a good example. You started in the business background, and that's one of the reasons why I think you're so successful, is because in the where I'm going with this is like processes, like my strength is the drive and the vision. My strength is not creating a process. My strength is not creating SOP. My strength is not systemizing it. But guess what? I don't know. Why do I feel like I even need to be I don't. You can hire that out. You can hire someone to do that. You can do a fractional and so I think the paralyzing Part A lot of times, is we all know we have to work on our businesses. The question is, like every owner, we always think it has to be us, and it doesn't mean you're not involved. But I'm saying you can, and I'm just saying that there are people to help you with this absolutely
Brad Robinson 25:45
and I think that I'm going to give myself a little self promo here. In creating the Bradford blueprint, my intent was to help. We hear this phrase all the time, you got to get off the tools, right? Why do you have to get off the tools? Think of that for just one moment. If you're stuck on the tools, you're not working on your business. I look at the paradigm shift between becoming a you being a great carpenter or being a great tradesman, or whatever it is that you're doing on the day to day. But if you're behind the wheel of that van, and you're at Home Depot, and then you're setting up and breaking down and mobilizing tools. And you're even if you're just managing a team at that point or multiple teams. Calculate the number of hours in the day that you worked on your business, not in it at the end of the week, if you count more hours working in it than on it, you have a problem. You have to flip that. The paradigm shift is when you start working on your business more than you work in it, and that's when things drastically change. So the idea of building these processes, or in some cases, like you think about everything needs to be written down every if you died tomorrow, I would be responsible for those 19 people that are going to get up and take a shower and drive to that office, whether I show up or not, the business needs to be able to run. There's a I feel an immense responsibility and sense of I have to take care of these people. They're trusting in me. So it's up to me to be able to duplicate the result. So how do you do that? Everything gets written down. Everybody has a mission. Everybody knows what they're responsible for, and they execute regardless whether you show up or not.
Mark D. Williams 27:28
We're gonna have to bring you back on for a scaling episode. We've far exceeded our 20 minute Q, a, thanks for tuning in. We'll see you next Monday, and thanks for Brad for for in house guest on this usually monolog. It's way more fun talking to somebody. Oh so much. Let's go jump in the lake. All right, see buddy. Thanks for tuning in to curious builder podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor. Share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth, and with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends. Like and review online, and thanks again for tuning in you.
