Q & A Episode 28 - From Failures to Success: Insider Tips from a Veteran Builder
Episode #28 | Q&A with Mark D. Williams | From Failures to Success: Insider Tips from a Veteran Builder
In this episode of The Curious Builder, Mark Williams talks about the ups and downs of running a business and why it's crucial to stay steady during tough times. He shares some personal stories about navigating a challenging year, the importance of persistence, and how small builders make a big impact on society. Plus, Mark highlights the benefits of joining the Curious Collectives for those looking to connect and grow with other like-minded pros.
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About The Curious Builder
The host of the Curious Builder Posdast is Mark D. Williams, the founder of Mark D. WIlliams Custom Homes Inc. They are an award-winning Twin Cities-based home builder, creating quality custom homes and remodels — one-of-a-kind dream homes of all styles and scopes. Whether you’re looking to reimagine your current space or start fresh with a new construction, we build homes that reflect how you live your everyday life.
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Mark Williams [00:00:00]:
If you're following along what we're doing outside of the podcast, we have the Curious Collectives. We had three Curious Builder Collectives. We had a Curious Builder Collective, we had a Curious Designer Collective and we had a Curious Architect Collective. Basically what this is is we get small groups, no more than 30, you get into tables of nine and we have set topics of discussion. You can see everything that you want on the website at curious builder podcast.com. you can also find it in other cities. So the collective is going into Phoenix. Brad Levitt is going to be hosting a Curious collective down in Phoenix, Arizona.
Mark Williams [00:00:34]:
We're going to have Brad Robinson and Vince Longo leading a collective in Atlanta, Georgia. And we're going to have David and Angela Penske down in San Antonio also leading a collective. And a few other states are coming online later this year as well of course as Minnesota. So if you're interested in getting together with like minded individuals, this collective is kind of somewhere between what we do at the contractor coalition that you hear me talk a lot about. It's also kind of a hybrid of what you see at builder 20s. So it's a really open format, very much embracing collaboration or competition if you want to further education, if you want to increase learning from each other. You definitely want to find out more about these collectives. If anyone is like me and small builders, small business owners that are thinking about this, like I bet you a lot of people don't plan.
Mark Williams [00:01:21]:
I think they just go by how they feel. And I'm not saying that's all bad either. You know, I think planning is really important. But don't forget to use your gut. Welcome to Curious Builder Podcast. I'm Mark Williams, your host and today is our Thursday Q and A. And I was just actually just chatting with my buddy Drew Beeson from Drew Beeson Art. His episode aired on the Curious Builder podcast, if you want to hear it.
Mark Williams [00:01:52]:
And we were just talking about the seasonality of, of business and that's really what the whole point of this little 20 minute segment is going to be. And we are just joking about how for me Personally last year 24 was maybe 1 of the hardest years I've had in business outside of maybe 2009 and 10. Just really weird. I had maybe four or five jobs that slid off or canceled and it was a real scramble, obviously from a marketing standpoint. And stuff that we were doing on the Curious Builder things was, were going great, but in my building company things were much slower than I wanted to be. We had to lay off a Few people last Christmas, which is not enjoyable, especially not that time of year. And, yeah, it was just kind of a downer year. You can be optimistic, but have some tough seas.
Mark Williams [00:02:33]:
And then this year, I'd say the last 30 days, we've picked up two new builds. They'll probably start this summer. And I had a feeling that 25 was going to be a really great year. And we're only a couple weeks into it, and it's shaping up to be a really great year. And we'll con continue to build on that. And I was talking to Drew, and he had just mentioned he's an. He's an artist. If you haven't listened to his episode, it's worth a listen.
Mark Williams [00:02:57]:
It's just really interesting. As Drew bucks a lot of stereotypes. A lot of times artists have these stereotypes that they can't make a career out of business. It's hard to be good at multiple things, to be an artist, to be that talented, but also be good at business. It's just rare that you'd be good at both. And his insights are really interesting. But what I like what he talks about, he goes, yeah, he goes, there's many times where, you know, I'm effectively unemployed, but nobody tells me. And I think what he was speaking to hilariously is that there are times in between his commissions on an artwork where he's just either painting or working on materials or making maybe creating some art for himself or trying to create something to then sell it.
Mark Williams [00:03:34]:
But he has no active client, so he's effectively unemployed. It was just really funny. He's been doing this for 20 years, and he's had multiple times where he's been, quote, unemployed because it doesn't have an active client. And I've been fortunate not to be, you know, completely that way in terms, mainly because building a house, the homes that we build usually take about three to five, six months in design, and then anywhere from eight months to two years to build. You always usually have something going on, so there's usually not a dead stop in the water. But it's scary. I think anyone that's been building for a while or owned any business for a while knows that those lulls, they really test your faith in yourself, your faith in your team, and really your commitment to your craft. And I think something that my dad used to always say, and my mom, too, that was super helpful.
Mark Williams [00:04:20]:
I've said it so many times, I'm starting to use this thing on my kids. But it's steady at the helm, and I just Think of sailing, sailing a ship across the ocean. Like there are days when you've got blue skies and the wind at your back and things are going great. And then there are a lot of days where you've got high seas, you can't see anything, you've got a storm rolling in, you're batting down the hashes, you're trying to weather the storm. And then there's times where you've got the, I think they call them the doldrums. You've got sun but no wind. You're just stuck. You can't go anywhere.
Mark Williams [00:04:46]:
And each one of them have different challenges. And I remember one time somebody saying once, I think it was meant to be more of a spiritual test or question, but the question was, is, can you weather the storm of adversity? Which I think a lot of us could probably relate to that one more. But the flip side of that coin is can you survive the test of prosperity? And I think it's an interesting thing to think of. And anyone that's been in business, we. You go through cycles of up and down, ebbs and flows. I've been in business for 20 years now. And inevitably that fourth quarter into the first sometimes gets really quiet, sometimes too quiet. And then in Minnesota, I always say that the first sunny day in March would be like 25 degrees and sunny, but inside you think it's 70 degrees.
Mark Williams [00:05:30]:
The phone will just ring off the hook for about 45 days. And that is really your time to make hay for that year. Just because the design sequencing in the actual building. Usually people call you the day they want to break ground, not realizing that it's going to take that three to six months to get it going. All that excitement is usually in that beginning time when they're really ready for that new year and something big. But going back to that quote about surviving prosperity, even King Solomon, right, He had all the blessings, natural gifts you could have. He had all the money. He had brains and wisdom among men.
Mark Williams [00:06:01]:
But he had some difficult trials. And I, I think sometimes business, when things go really well, you tend to little get high in the hog. You spend money on stuff maybe you shouldn't spend money on. You spend maybe a little fat on marketing or you hire a few people and you're not watching your bottom line. And before you know it, you're basically, you're not as profitable as you were before. But when you are really hungry, man, you're scrappy. And there's that old adage of either busy being busy or busy getting busy. But you better be busy.
Mark Williams [00:06:30]:
And then one of my other favorite quotes is, comes from Born to Run, one of my favorite books. And it was talking about waking up in the, in the, in the safari setting or in the Serengeti in Africa. And it says basically if you're a lion or a gazelle, when the sun gets up, you better be running. And someone, one's the prey and one's the hunter, but either way, you better be running. And I think that's so applicable to business. And I think the steady metronome of business is like in your brain, it's in your heart. And I think it's. I talk a lot about taking the pause.
Mark Williams [00:07:01]:
We've been promoting the lot for sauna camp and for boot camp and just for really bringing attention to boundaries. Create freedom. Shut it down, shut your, Put your phone aside, spend time with your family, exercise, get that mental spot that you need. But when it's time to work, get to work. And when it's time to run, like run. And when it's time to do the hard stuff, like roll up your sleeves and do the hard stuff. And I think if you are effectively doing, if you're getting rest, you can do the hard work. And if you're doing the hard work, you can effectively rest.
Mark Williams [00:07:30]:
I think they're the opposite sides of the same coin and I think it's really important to talk about. And so I was really glad for this little quote that Drew sewed in my brain this morning. It's just been going on overdrive since then. I think the other thing to be aware of is that a lot of times people make their self worth tied to their business. I think you got to be a little careful with that. I think whether your business succeeds or doesn't succeed, hopefully you have the self. I'm not saying I want to affect you because I think we're human. I don't know how it won't.
Mark Williams [00:07:59]:
But if you think you're a failure because your business fails, I think that's wrong. I think we should all check our fuel source, like where are we getting our inspiration, where are we getting our energy? And I'm not saying part of it doesn't come from success. And I'm not saying part of it doesn't come from our clients who are thankful for what we do. It certainly can. But I think self belief in who you are and what you're doing as a company and what you're doing as a craftsperson in your field is really important. And I think ultimately if your confidence is so strong in yourself. Like, that is what attracts people to your. Your product, your home, cabinet maker, home builder, accountant, whatever it is, honestly, it's transcendent.
Mark Williams [00:08:39]:
Whatever your business is, if you don't believe it, why would the client believe it? And if you do believe it, then it's just about finding the right client. And I think. I think home builders in particular have a lot to be. I don't think we pause enough to stop and realize the impact we're having on our society. And I love it every time you get. We just obviously are past the new year. But, like all the Christmas cards you get from your clients and you see their families that are growing, and you see the house, maybe a lot of times the photos that they send you, it's a picture on the front porch in front of the house that you built them. That is really cool.
Mark Williams [00:09:16]:
And I don't think we give ourselves enough credit for that or our team enough credit for that, or the industry gets enough credit for it. Because you're building a home where people live. And I feel like my dad was much better at recognizing this than I was. Sometimes I get pretty enamored with the style of the home or the architecture partner or the design partner, and that's. That gets me excited. So it's not a bad thing. But, like, realizing, like, whether it's a cardboard box or a $10 million mansion or more like it's a home, it's a roof over that person and their family's head. They're creating memories in it, and that's special.
Mark Williams [00:09:50]:
And the industry deserves to be complimented and rewarded and helped in creating these American dreams or really dreams for people. I don't think it has to even be an American dream. Like, it's just a dream to own your home and to live in a home where you can be safe, your kids can be safe, you can rest easy knowing that you're in a safe place. Like, that's really important. Beyond, I think, what I even understand, I take it for granted, like many of us. And I think realizing that what we're doing for society is really important. It's fundamental. It really is a fundamental need.
Mark Williams [00:10:24]:
It's been around since the beginning of time, since Adam and. Adam and Eve, I guess, had to leave the Garden of Eden, go find a cave for shelter, or Cain and Abel before they got into a fight, they had to find someplace to. To sleep at night. It's been around since we had time, and it will always be a factor. Where do we. Where do we spend our Time, where's our home? The other part of this is the seasonality. I think it's one of the things that's really important is the ups and downs and the reason to be steady. I think it applies to a number of different things.
Mark Williams [00:10:52]:
I think it should apply to how we market in terms of our market. Marketing urgency. A lot of times when people get slow, they actually pull back on marketing because they don't have the funds. But really the inverse is true. When you're really slow, you should probably spend more money on marketing. It's hard to do, though, because you're sending money out the door and money's not coming back. Then when you have a lot of work, you're like, well, if I'm marketing now, maybe I can't even handle the marketing. But I think picking a steady cadence, and I haven't done this, I've made this mistake many times.
Mark Williams [00:11:23]:
I think I'm like anybody else. I think I'm governed by a lot of times human nature in the bottom line, where this hasn't been a really profitable, let's say, year or quarter or whatever. So I'm going to pull back on marketing. But I think as I've gotten later in my career, I really pick a plan. I now plan a year in advance on some marketing. And I understand there's a lot of people that come from corporate backgrounds where this is, okay, this is not rocket science. You're actually planning it. But I would imagine if anyone is, like me and small builders, small business owners that are thinking about this, like, I bet you a lot of people don't plan.
Mark Williams [00:11:57]:
And I think they just go by how they feel. And I'm not saying that's all bad either. There is. I think sometimes we can. You know, I think planning is really important. But don't forget to use your gut. There are times where we. I think, you know, I think I.
Mark Williams [00:12:12]:
Eisenhower said this like he's found. He found planning indispensable. But don't stick to the plan. That would just lead you to failure. The plan needs to pivot, the plan needs to change. If you're six months down the road of a plan and it's not working, maybe it is the right time to modify it. Maybe it. Maybe that's a judgment call.
Mark Williams [00:12:29]:
Do you stick with it or do you chuck it out the window? But I do think that the planning process, in laying it out is super, super critical to, to really any company in any business. I've been reading some Japanese proverbs and some Chinese proverbs. And I'll just basically these three are all the same. There's a quote by Jim Watkins that caught my eye the other day. It says a river cuts through rock not because of its power but because of its persistence. And then the Chinese saying is water drops, stone is broken. Or sorry, water drops, stone is bored through or little strokes fell great oaks. But basically they all speak to the same thing, which is cons and persistence, persistence and relentlessness.
Mark Williams [00:13:13]:
I'm reading a book right now, I'm about maybe an hour away from being done and it is amazing book, relentless. I'll look up the address or the author here in a minute. But it is really inspiring book. And what I love about it is it speaks more to the mindset. It's by Tim Grover, relentless from good to great to unstoppable. And he was actually a trainer for Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade. And I really appreciate the mindset of it. And I think what makes in this case champions or successful business owners is the things that you do every day that add up.
Mark Williams [00:13:50]:
I think it's like grains of sand, an hourglass, a few grains of sand just don't seem to do a whole lot. But you let them start accumulating. You can see the passage of time. And I think this is where having check ins with whether it's our business coach or whether it's your peers or a quarterly check in with one of the curious builder collectives, how you've progressed. And I look back in hindsight now over the last, let's say, three years, and we've made some dramatic changes from an operation standpoint that really all stemmed from the contractor coalition with Brad Levitt and Morgan Molitor and Nick Schiffer. The first one was in Nashville two, three years ago. And I look back now at the builder and business owner that I am today compared to what I was then, and I didn't realize it at the time, but that really set off a domino effect, an accelerator really of what to do, when to do it, how to do it. And so I think that by looking out and seeing other people, it does really help you raise the bar.
Mark Williams [00:14:54]:
And then everyone has to define what being relentless is for themselves, whether it's their personal goals, which I've spoken about previously on the podcast, or your business goals or whatever they might be. Like lay out a plan. And I don't know why it's taken me so long to think of it in this terms, because from a training standpoint, I'm very diligent if you're going to run a marathon or an ultra marathon or whatever you're going to do. Like, you lay out a training plan, what you're going to eat, what you're going to drink, the training that you're going to do, the races leading up to it, your rest, your recovery. Get pretty methodical about it because you want to be successful. And if you don't put in the time, then you won't be successful. And I remember someone one time telling me about a test, and it was speaking about it in a different way, but he basically said that he doesn't. The test itself doesn't scare him.
Mark Williams [00:15:37]:
If he's done the preparation, the test is easy, but if he hasn't done the preparation, then the test is not very comfortable. And I think a little bit of a race, like, if you show up at race day and you're ready, like, you did the training, like, eventually everyone will know because the stopwatch doesn't lie or the scoreboard doesn't lie when you show up, if you're ready or not. Did you put in the hard work and were you persistent? Were you relentless? And I think that's where, like, the little, small daily hacks. Daily hacks is the wrong word, but, like, habit stacking. We won't take the time on this podcast to talk about atomic habits, but that was a super influential book for me a couple years ago, and I continue to use those principles time and time again. And maybe I'll go in parts of, like, certain seasons, but even within the year, or I might change them, like, quarterly. The last 75 days, as I finished 75 hard with 13 builders, there were certain habits that we had to do. One was drink a gallon of water.
Mark Williams [00:16:28]:
That's five of my giant, curious builder mugs of water. That's a lot of water. Ten pages in a book, exercise twice a day. But, like, after 75 days, those things become grained. I think it says six, 45 days to set a habit. Now I'm drinking more water than I used to, and I drank a lot of water before. I'm now enjoying reading books in a way that I never really. I used to love to read books when I was in high school and really didn't read a ton of books just because I was so busy between, you know, starting a business, having kids.
Mark Williams [00:16:56]:
Like, I just couldn't read a book. But now I'm. I'm really enjoying reading books again. And some of them are for fun, some of them are business. And obviously I listen to a lot of books, too. And I think, like, you're actually, if your goal is to learn, if your goal is to, if you're curious about industries, maybe it's AI, maybe it's business, maybe it's health and fitness, whatever it is, I think you can set these little milestones in that, you know, 10 pages a day doesn't seem a lot, but obviously, you know, add those months on end, you're talking hundreds, hundreds of pages. You're talking maybe a dozen to 20 books a year. And that starts to add up year after year.
Mark Williams [00:17:32]:
And I heard something really inspiring about Kobe Bryant from this relentless book. And I think at the time, Kobe had won three championships. And this coach asked him, they said, how many years do you want to be playing at a high level? And he said, three more rings. He didn't quote how many years? Which was the question. He quoted back what the goal was. So years had nothing to do with his goal. And I really like that a lot. So as you plan your 25, as you strive to make it successful, think about the goals that you want and work backwards in your daily practice, your weekly practice, your team practices, and set forth those little milestones, those atomic habits, and they will lead you there.
Mark Williams [00:18:16]:
We'll see you Monday at our next podcast. Hmm. Thanks for tuning in to Curious Builder Podcast. If you like this episode, do us a favor, share it with three other business owners. The best way that we can spread what we're doing is by word of mouth. And with your help, we can continue to help other curious builders expand their business. Please share it with your friends like and review online. And thanks again for tuning in.
